Curse

Jeydra · Jun 12, 2009, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Like, really. The only way you can beat an organized but not-so-AB-proficient team with PuGs is to res enough NPCs to overwhelm them. It's how I win on Grenz and Etnaran. Go in with PuGs, see I face an organized team, melt away before them and eventually flash three NPCs in their face to powerplay and destroy them. And now I can't anymore. I can't carry entire teams on my back because I have 3 Elite Elementalists who serve as my personal bodyguards, giving me enough firepower to both roll other teams and cap shrines. What the heck?

Why does ANet want to shift the balance in AB so much in favour of rolling and away from PuGGing?
Isn't it clear that the best way to influence an AB match alone is to use the NPCs?
Haven't ANet been trying to encourage people to form groups quite a while, giving us tough ZQs to force us to pick up other players?
And now JQ gives more faction per unit time + AB is all the more difficult to win with, I wonder why I'd even AB anymore!
Why why why?

/rant /rant

Myster Grim · Jun 12, 2009, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Well it WAS a fun Explot while it lasted.

Owik Gall · Jun 12, 2009, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Consequently this idea has always been the trump card in any AB match and teams could rarely counter this "strategy". As a result to this unbeatable way to win AB, Anet has apparently responded. Here's the problems besides the just obvious.

If a "PuG" team can use this trick, so can the other teams. Let me tell you that the non "PuG" and annoyingly skillful players will catch onto this idea. This in turn made the original idea of over whelming these "leet" players backfire. A team can effectively organize an NPC mob instead of organizing themselves. This has resulted into an imbalance mayhem.

Your excuses for using NPC mobbing is not justifying it, let alone explain why AB players should still use it. For instance: forming groups and picking players for a team has nothing to do with NPC mobbing. They don't even mean the same thing. Another thing, "PuG" team domination is not favored, especially to the company that controls the game. The only reason why some players favored this is because it was an absolute way to win.

Overall this trick was very annoying to the opposition and it made the match unfair. We go in for a 12vs.12 PvP match, not a mission to fight against the odds. As a result, Anet had to do something about it instead of letting this trend go on and let this imbalance way of PvP acceptable, which wouldn't be good. So it looks like they've fixed it, made sure that NO npcs can be revived, and finally ending the fears of the possibility of an NPC mob CHEAT.

Reverend Dr · Jun 12, 2009, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myster Grim

Well it WAS a fun Explot while it lasted.

All three years of it.

It was fun, it was really the only reason I ever played AB, and it could only be pulled off if your team was going to win anyway.

"Of all the things in guild wars that need attention, they focused on something that wasn't broken. " - The Story of Guild Wars.

Saph · Jun 12, 2009, 02:18 AM // 02:18

I never even knew it was a bug. Thought the orbs were suppose to do that lol.

riceangel · Jun 12, 2009, 03:02 AM // 03:02

I rarely saw this tactic used. I certainly never seen 3 elite ele's following a player though

Bobby2 · Jun 12, 2009, 03:33 AM // 03:33

r12 Luxon, r10 Kurzick, and I've used the thing to rez an allied player like....

...twice?

Meh, whatever. I won't mourn its passing

Moderator's Edit: deleted a quote.

glacialphoenix · Jun 12, 2009, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Overall this trick was very annoying to the opposition and it made the match unfair. We go in for a 12vs.12 PvP match, not a mission to fight against the odds. As a result, Anet had to do something about it instead of letting this trend go on and let this imbalance way of PvP acceptable, which wouldn't be good. So it looks like they've fixed it, made sure that NO npcs can be revived, and finally ending the fears of the possibility of an NPC mob CHEAT.

I don't know though. It was pretty handy for rezzing dead shrine defenders. If they were worried about NPC mobs tagging around the map, maybe they should've set a limit on the number of NPCs that could follow you around. Then again, this makes no difference to me. I'll just do without, it's not that big a deal.

jonnieboi05 · Jun 12, 2009, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Owned.

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1103/gw232.jpg

Moderator's Edit: Your image is too large to display, but I left the URL. Resize it to 800 x 600 or use a thumbnail.

~LeNa~

GourangaPizza · Jun 12, 2009, 04:24 AM // 04:24

I don't understand, this so-called 'exploit' is a great reward for skillful play and strategy in the otherwise mundane AB. Now with this nerf they just made it into another dumbed down groupie version of HB.

Sun Fired Blank · Jun 12, 2009, 04:35 AM // 04:35

The ability to glitch NPCs wasn't particularly skillful. You'd simply take the Elite NPC, wait for the elite NPC to die from the shrine being capped, then orb him. Good riddance to it.

GourangaPizza · Jun 12, 2009, 04:43 AM // 04:43

And how many opportunities did you have to do that? You're talking about the execution phase, and that is easy of course. But to get to that stage where you have a res orb and conveniently near a fresh elite NPC corpse is no simple task. It is easy to done it once but subsequent attempts to get multiple elite shrine NPCs is difficult.

jonnieboi05 · Jun 12, 2009, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by GourangaPizza

And how many opportunities did you have to do that? You're talking about the execution phase, and that is easy of course. But to get to that stage where you have a res orb and conveniently near a fresh elite NPC corpse is no simple task. It is easy to done it once but subsequent attempts to get multiple elite shrine NPCs is difficult.

What Pizza says is very true. I have both r12 Lux and r12 Kurz so I have "been around the block", so to speak. I can vouch that as simple as it sounds it's not really all that simple to meet all the criterias for 2+ elite NPCs

Moonstalker · Jun 12, 2009, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Uhh.. sorry if I'm behind, haha, but..
What?
I mean, I didn't AB much, but when I did I don't think I knew anything about this res orb deal. What exactly was it?

mr monk rupsie · Jun 12, 2009, 06:14 AM // 06:14

You could say this isnt an exploit, its a tactical advantage.

1. The criterium to get an extra NPC is very hard.
-.You need an NPC near you
-. you have a res orb in your hands
-. The enemy should actually capture the shrine of that
NPC while you still need to have that NPC + orb.
-. Afther that you can ress the NPC succesfully.

2. The exploit can only be used if the opposit teams only attack shrines. In other words 3 teams running in circles and only killing the shrine while forgetting about fighting against each other. If this happens only then you have a great change for having mutiple NPC's in AB. When 1 of the teams finally thinks about fighting against the opposing team its to late^^.

3d, both teams can do this. Only the map difference gives a slight advantage to one of the factions.

4th, monks have a hard time keeping these things alive if the opposing teams actually attack the NPC's. Since this NPC is not in your party list and you should keeping your team mates alive your attention will not be particullary 100% to that NPC.

Overall. Since 85% of the battles of AB are fought in Kurzick territory. I can conclude that at some point luxons found a way to find this advantage and use it as much as possible because the beginning phase is towards the kurzicks. But what i found a bit funny is that the kurzicks should have a bigger army of NPC's because of the advantage of an res-orb near the base and at the start the first thing you do is running to the ele/war/res shrine.

Altho i have fought plenty of AB's i have only seen Luxons using this tactical advantage.

Darth The Xx · Jun 12, 2009, 08:48 AM // 08:48

So like if it takes them this long to fix an "exploit" thats been in the game this long looks like we have no hope in hell for them fixing pathing around those Zaishen signs before GW2 comes out

Jeydra · Jun 12, 2009, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owik Gall

Consequently this idea has always been the trump card in any AB match and teams could rarely counter this "strategy". As a result to this unbeatable way to win AB, Anet has apparently responded. Here's the problems besides the just obvious.

If a "PuG" team can use this trick, so can the other teams. Let me tell you that the non "PuG" and annoyingly skillful players will catch onto this idea. This in turn made the original idea of over whelming these "leet" players backfire. A team can effectively organize an NPC mob instead of organizing themselves. This has resulted into an imbalance mayhem.

Your excuses for using NPC mobbing is not justifying it, let alone explain why AB players should still use it. For instance: forming groups and picking players for a team has nothing to do with NPC mobbing. They don't even mean the same thing. Another thing, "PuG" team domination is not favored, especially to the company that controls the game. The only reason why some players favored this is because it was an absolute way to win.

Overall this trick was very annoying to the opposition and it made the match unfair. We go in for a 12vs.12 PvP match, not a mission to fight against the odds. As a result, Anet had to do something about it instead of letting this trend go on and let this imbalance way of PvP acceptable, which wouldn't be good. So it looks like they've fixed it, made sure that NO npcs can be revived, and finally ending the fears of the possibility of an NPC mob CHEAT.

Several things:

1. This strategy is not unbeatable. In fact it is very vulnerable, because while you're building up your horde of NPCs you are essentially a naked Elementalist roaming the map, free food for anyone who catches you. And since if you get caught any NPCs you've raised are likely to die as well, it can get pretty hard to pull off.
2. It takestime to build up a force. Actually a fair bit of time, which is why rolling teams usually don't get that many NPCs. They spend time fighting, not capping, as well as making less trips to the Res Orb shrine.
3. Note that I am not saying rolling strategies are ineffective. In fact as far as I'm concerned a good rolling team is one of the most dangerous in the map because if you so much as stray into their range you will be snared and killed, and there are lots of bad players in AB waiting to stray into their range. Still a rolling team can be beaten, and this strategy I've outlined is / was one of the most effective against it.
4. Although anyone can use this "trick" if you call it that, lots of people don't (see Bobby2's post above).
5. If you're getting beaten by this strategy maybe you should examine what you've done wrong. That's like saying pre-VoD removal in GvG, we go in to fight players not NPCs, the other team split us and wiped out all our NPCs. We gave them all big DP but lost to that NPC mob come VoD, omgwtfbbq!?!? Cheating!! Nerf pl0x!! Except of course you let the odds accumulate, so you fight it.

As I said, this strategy is not unbeatable, and it is not that you can pull it off every game - but it is a crucial resource as far as I'm concerned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

The ability to glitch NPCs wasn't particularly skillful. You'd simply take the Elite NPC, wait for the elite NPC to die from the shrine being capped, then orb him. Good riddance to it.

Lol if you're saying this isn't particularly skillful (and I pour scorn on so-called "skill-based balance") then I'll go ahead and claim that nothing is particularly skillful because the other main strategy in AB - rolling - can be summed up as "you simply find a weak team you can roll, go up there, roll them, and move on." Good riddance to it, I hope ANet gets rid of that, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

What Pizza says is very true. I have both r12 Lux and r12 Kurz so I have "been around the block", so to speak. I can vouch that as simple as it sounds it's not really all that simple to meet all the criterias for 2+ elite NPCs

I'll add to that. 2+ elite NPCs is pretty rare (like one game in five). But one ressed NPC isn't that rare, especially if you go out of your way to get one, and one ressed NPC can still exert a big influence on a match. Largest armies I've seen were something like 4 Elite Eles + 3 Elite Warriors, amassed by a player who went around capping and ressing the whole match. Not my style though, once I get enough of a NPC army I tend to use it aggressively to kill players whenever I can, thereby removing myself from the capping cycle and so more ressed NPCs.

I can also safely say that I don't often see anyone else actively ressing NPCs. There are players who do that, just not a lot (not counting me, something like one game in ten). Without NPCs to res, there's like no point in holding the Orb.

Eragon Zarroc · Jun 12, 2009, 01:39 PM // 13:39

lol, years later, lets change a part of the game that wasn't really technically an exploit, gg ;-)

Lux Aeterna · Jun 13, 2009, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Personally I have absolitely no opinion on this.

The only time it bothers me is when parties take multiple npcs out of the base at start on ancestral, making for an impossible fight at southeast equip (because they cap the shrine despite 4 Luxons fighting them on it).

Jeydra · Jun 15, 2009, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

The only time it bothers me is when parties take multiple npcs out of the base at start on ancestral, making for an impossible fight at southeast equip (because they cap the shrine despite 4 Luxons fighting them on it).

What about bringing the elite NPC with you on Grenz / Etnaran to start, making an initial clash 5v4?

By the way the fix didn't change anything on Ancestral, Kaanai and Saltspray. You can't Res NPCs there, but they still follow you, so the 6v4 fight as you mentioned still happens (of course I don't have any problems with that either, it's an inherent Kurz / Lux advantage and they'll have difficulty replacing the NPCs if they die).